"Beyond Dishonest"
Part 1
>The existence of left-wing militants is troubling. But they *barely* exist, and any attempt to paint them as even remotely equivalent to the Alt-Right (in size, power, culpability, influence, toxicity, aggression, etc.) is beyond dishonest.
Since when does having a different opinion make one “beyond dishonest?” You may personally feel that way, but aren’t others allowed to have different opinions without being called dishonest? After all, that’s what tolerance is supposed to be about. It’s what our democracy is about, “Out of many, One.”
I’ve read a lot of Orwell over the years, and he wrote that systems of thought that expect everyone to think and act the same way, are totalitarian, and I’m very much against that.
Personally, I do find equivalence between the two, which is why I shared this article from BBC news - not because I’m beyond dishonest, but because of Orwell’s influence. Though not a psychologist, Orwell’s insights into behavior have been compared to those of Ehrich Fromm and Wilhelm Reich.
Though a Democratic Socialist, he wrote a number of essays about the intellectual dishonesty of leftist politics. Animal Farm was about the betrayal of socialist ideals in the Soviet Union, which lead to one of the most totalitarian regimes the world has seen.
Though serving mainly as a warning if the trends of his time continued as is, 1984 was about the ultimate totalitarian state. The thing is, a number of aspects from 1984 are already in place, for example, the Two-Minutes Hate.
In the Two-Minutes Hate, party members gather together to vent their hatred towards the despised leader of the opposing party. As Winston Smith (Orwell) observes, the “horrible thing” is that once started, it’s impossible to resist joining in the frenzy of hatred - and once those flames are ignited, how easily they are spread.
In our time, it’s the progressives that vent their hatred, the enemy being Trump. It isn’t that they just find fault with his actual shortcomings, they’ve pre-ordained that everything he’s done, even before he’s done it, is evil and wrong. It’s the presumption of guilt before innocence, the antithesis of what’s stated in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Then there was George W. Bush. Whether one approved his actions or not, he never “Lied.” That was a fabrication perpetuated by leftist bigots. For the record, the Senate Bipartisan 9/11 Commission Report absolved Bush of any wrongdoing, saying that the problem was faulty intelligence, the same faulty intelligence that other nations received as well. Though this evidence was readily available, “progressives” weren’t interested. This has been going on for decades. And of course, there are conservatives who think the same way about Democrats, a never ending cycle of contempt.
I’m not dismissing the alt - right at all, but if we’re talking about dishonesty and the misrepresentation of facts, which I am, then “progressives” tower over those who dare to equate left-wing bigotry to right-wing.
Worse then that, just like with the spreading flames of hatred in 1984, everything Republican is summarily hated as well, without question. And someone who does question, like me, is quickly viewed as either an aberration, or a stupid moron.
It is this spreading hatred that’s causing so much animosity in our nation today. Think of it, would you want to associate with people who continually call you a moron? Of course not, yet these “progressive” intellectuals do it all the time, and then wonder why conservatives reject their platform.
One doesn’t have to be a Freud to understand what’s going on, but for all their supposed intellect, “progressives” can’t seem to understand this. Ultimately, they’re bigotry is no different from their conservative counterparts.
Then again, maybe that’s the real motive, viewing Republicans as enemies. After all WAR IS PEACE is one of the primary slogans in 1984, and what better way to sustain a war then to have a perpetual scapegoat to blame and war against? The PEACE is that all party members (“progressives”) are united in their hatred.
Is that not true?
I do know people who are genuine Progressives. It’s easy to spot them. You can tell by the way they treat other people.
I know a number of jazz musicians who are “progressive” bigots, and you might know some of them too. Just like in 1984, they gather together, on Facebook, to justify and reaffirm their hatred of all Republicans. In fact, it seems as if that’s all they can do. If you haven’t seen this, I’ll give you some names to check out.
For example, I saw one of these persons say that those who voted for Trump were “stupid white people.” I told her it was a racist remark. She denied it, adding that these people had to be educated. Re-educating the “people” happens to be one of the top priorities communism has in mind after the government is overthrown.
It's just as Orwell wrote, “"So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot."
Then I asked, “What about the blacks who voted for Trump, are they stupid too?” whereupon she unfriended me.
Right-wing bigots do exactly the same thing too, and that there is the equivalence. I’m a firm believer that if we want to end intolerance and hatred, it has to be done straight across the board, where and whenever it occurs. No matter its guise, hate is hate. There are no excuses, no justifications.
What I’ve always found peculiar is the apathy towards left-wing bigotry. If we as a nation had stood up against this when it first became apparent, we might not have the animosity we do today. It is that animosity that enabled Trump to be elected.
I agree that at the current moment, right-wing bigots have committed the most murders, but I’ve yet to see them riot, burn and loot, as has happened here in Baltimore and other cities.
If we want to cite numbers, an estimated 60 million people perished under Stalin and Mao-tse Tung, which is more then the total killed in World War II. Another 8 million were killed by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. The page “30 Worst Atrocities of the 20th Century,” listed below, gives an overall perspective of what went on.
The worst incident in the US so far, not counting the Wall Street bombing of 1920, which resulted in the deaths of 38 people, was the 1963 assassination of president John F, Kennedy by communist sympathizer, Lee Harvey Oswald.
Again, I feel we can’t attack just one form of hatred, because if we ignore others, there’s the chance we won’t recognize the danger until it’s too late.
FB - 2017/08/17
>The existence of left-wing militants is troubling. But they *barely* exist, and any attempt to paint them as even remotely equivalent to the Alt-Right (in size, power, culpability, influence, toxicity, aggression, etc.) is beyond dishonest.
Since when does having a different opinion make one “beyond dishonest?” You may personally feel that way, but aren’t others allowed to have different opinions without being called dishonest? After all, that’s what tolerance is supposed to be about. It’s what our democracy is about, “Out of many, One.”
I’ve read a lot of Orwell over the years, and he wrote that systems of thought that expect everyone to think and act the same way, are totalitarian, and I’m very much against that.
Personally, I do find equivalence between the two, which is why I shared this article from BBC news - not because I’m beyond dishonest, but because of Orwell’s influence. Though not a psychologist, Orwell’s insights into behavior have been compared to those of Ehrich Fromm and Wilhelm Reich.
Though a Democratic Socialist, he wrote a number of essays about the intellectual dishonesty of leftist politics. Animal Farm was about the betrayal of socialist ideals in the Soviet Union, which lead to one of the most totalitarian regimes the world has seen.
Though serving mainly as a warning if the trends of his time continued as is, 1984 was about the ultimate totalitarian state. The thing is, a number of aspects from 1984 are already in place, for example, the Two-Minutes Hate.
In the Two-Minutes Hate, party members gather together to vent their hatred towards the despised leader of the opposing party. As Winston Smith (Orwell) observes, the “horrible thing” is that once started, it’s impossible to resist joining in the frenzy of hatred - and once those flames are ignited, how easily they are spread.
In our time, it’s the progressives that vent their hatred, the enemy being Trump. It isn’t that they just find fault with his actual shortcomings, they’ve pre-ordained that everything he’s done, even before he’s done it, is evil and wrong. It’s the presumption of guilt before innocence, the antithesis of what’s stated in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Then there was George W. Bush. Whether one approved his actions or not, he never “Lied.” That was a fabrication perpetuated by leftist bigots. For the record, the Senate Bipartisan 9/11 Commission Report absolved Bush of any wrongdoing, saying that the problem was faulty intelligence, the same faulty intelligence that other nations received as well. Though this evidence was readily available, “progressives” weren’t interested. This has been going on for decades. And of course, there are conservatives who think the same way about Democrats, a never ending cycle of contempt.
I’m not dismissing the alt - right at all, but if we’re talking about dishonesty and the misrepresentation of facts, which I am, then “progressives” tower over those who dare to equate left-wing bigotry to right-wing.
Worse then that, just like with the spreading flames of hatred in 1984, everything Republican is summarily hated as well, without question. And someone who does question, like me, is quickly viewed as either an aberration, or a stupid moron.
It is this spreading hatred that’s causing so much animosity in our nation today. Think of it, would you want to associate with people who continually call you a moron? Of course not, yet these “progressive” intellectuals do it all the time, and then wonder why conservatives reject their platform.
One doesn’t have to be a Freud to understand what’s going on, but for all their supposed intellect, “progressives” can’t seem to understand this. Ultimately, they’re bigotry is no different from their conservative counterparts.
Then again, maybe that’s the real motive, viewing Republicans as enemies. After all WAR IS PEACE is one of the primary slogans in 1984, and what better way to sustain a war then to have a perpetual scapegoat to blame and war against? The PEACE is that all party members (“progressives”) are united in their hatred.
Is that not true?
I do know people who are genuine Progressives. It’s easy to spot them. You can tell by the way they treat other people.
I know a number of jazz musicians who are “progressive” bigots, and you might know some of them too. Just like in 1984, they gather together, on Facebook, to justify and reaffirm their hatred of all Republicans. In fact, it seems as if that’s all they can do. If you haven’t seen this, I’ll give you some names to check out.
For example, I saw one of these persons say that those who voted for Trump were “stupid white people.” I told her it was a racist remark. She denied it, adding that these people had to be educated. Re-educating the “people” happens to be one of the top priorities communism has in mind after the government is overthrown.
It's just as Orwell wrote, “"So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot."
Then I asked, “What about the blacks who voted for Trump, are they stupid too?” whereupon she unfriended me.
Right-wing bigots do exactly the same thing too, and that there is the equivalence. I’m a firm believer that if we want to end intolerance and hatred, it has to be done straight across the board, where and whenever it occurs. No matter its guise, hate is hate. There are no excuses, no justifications.
What I’ve always found peculiar is the apathy towards left-wing bigotry. If we as a nation had stood up against this when it first became apparent, we might not have the animosity we do today. It is that animosity that enabled Trump to be elected.
I agree that at the current moment, right-wing bigots have committed the most murders, but I’ve yet to see them riot, burn and loot, as has happened here in Baltimore and other cities.
If we want to cite numbers, an estimated 60 million people perished under Stalin and Mao-tse Tung, which is more then the total killed in World War II. Another 8 million were killed by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. The page “30 Worst Atrocities of the 20th Century,” listed below, gives an overall perspective of what went on.
The worst incident in the US so far, not counting the Wall Street bombing of 1920, which resulted in the deaths of 38 people, was the 1963 assassination of president John F, Kennedy by communist sympathizer, Lee Harvey Oswald.
Again, I feel we can’t attack just one form of hatred, because if we ignore others, there’s the chance we won’t recognize the danger until it’s too late.
FB - 2017/08/17
Part 2
>George, it's not dishonest to have a different opinion. It's dishonest to misrepresent two sides as equal when in objective truth the balance is so skewed that even the term "two-sided" is an overstatement. For all the reasons I listed above.
That is your opinion, to which you are entitled. Based on my experiences, I feel the best way to effectively counter hatred and ignorance is to do it when and wherever it occurs. That not only sends a message to society that bigotry of any kind won't be tolerated, it unites the nation with the common goal of improving the quality of life for everyone. The way the situation is now, there's this perpetual struggle between the right and left, along with the ever escalating animosity that divides us. Encouraging universal tolerance by uniting against all forms of intolerance will be our future, but only if we allow it to happen.
>I'm truly sorry you have experienced and observed unfounded hate from liberals. I have experienced and observed the opposite.
I too have experienced the opposite. In my 20s and 30s, it was rednecks. For the last 20 years, the encounters have been with Creationists.
>I have yet to see a left-flung epithet take hold with such fervor as the ubiquitous "libtard," and I have yet to hear inflections from the left which approach the level of sneer and jeer public conservatives ooze every time they pronounce the word "liberals."
That's because you haven't had my experiences, and I'm not the only one. And just like you, we too have the right to have our concerns and fears addressed.
>I have not seen anything in my lifetime which resembles the Two Minutes of Hate so closely as the vitriol directed at Obama for simply being Obama.
Again, your opinion. I know people who have despised president Obama just as you said. I also know people who did the same to George W. Bush. In my last post, I detailed how liberals lied about Bush's lying. Then there was the "moron" accusation. Because Kerry's Yale records were sealed at the time, journalist Steve Sailer used Bush's and Kerry's military aptitude tests to determine their IQs. Kerry's turned out to be in the 91st percentile, which is very high. Bush's was higher, in the 95th percentile, which is only 3 below genius level. The New York Times published Sailer's research.
Both "sides" are engaging in the same hateful behavior. There can't be any favoritism. Because they are both the opposite side of the same coin, both need to be equally denounced.
Like I've said, to me hate is hate. There are no justifications, no excuses. To rid our society of it, it needs to be severely dealt with at each and every occurrence.
>Criticism of Trump has been relentless, but it has been directed at his specific behaviors and actions.
One of the biggest charges is that Trump is a fascist. Fascism is characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce. The fact that Trumps' immigration restrictions have been blocked shows he's doesn't have dictatorial power. The large amount of protests show he doesn't suppress the opposition. He doesn't control this nation's industry and commerce.
This shows that rather then being about specific behaviors and actions, the charge of being a fascist is yet another liberal lie. These and other left-wing lies are responsible for the animosity that now exists in our country. That is why all forms of hatred, left and right, must be dealt with equally.
>I don't doubt that you have seen and experienced what you say you have seen and experienced, but surely you can't deny that there is coordinated and viscious hate coming from the right.
Of course there is. And my question to you is, why you do continually minimize my concerns. It's a recurring pattern.
>In my observation it is far more personal, coordinated, manipulative, and strategically-wielded than anything coming from the left.
Again, that's your observation. Others feel different.
>And surely your Orwell sensibilities can't help but tingle at Trump's constant and pathological tendency to repeat objectively verifiable lies.
They also tingle at the fact that you ignore it when left wing bigots do the same thing.
>George, I'm being a bit snarky here but I mean no disrespect to you. I wouldn't bother responding if I didn't respect you ... I believe the issue of Neo-Nazis vs. anti-Neo-Nazis is far more one-sided than you let on.
You say you mean no disrespect, then insult my intelligence with "far more one-sided than you let on." So which one is it? I've cited facts and personal experiences to support my position. I've talked about the nation coming together to combat all forms of bigotry, something most people would consider a noble undertaking.
It's fine if you want to continue on as is. It's your life to live as you see fit. But I'm not interested in endless rounds of justifications that lead nowhere.
FB - 2017/08/19
>George, it's not dishonest to have a different opinion. It's dishonest to misrepresent two sides as equal when in objective truth the balance is so skewed that even the term "two-sided" is an overstatement. For all the reasons I listed above.
That is your opinion, to which you are entitled. Based on my experiences, I feel the best way to effectively counter hatred and ignorance is to do it when and wherever it occurs. That not only sends a message to society that bigotry of any kind won't be tolerated, it unites the nation with the common goal of improving the quality of life for everyone. The way the situation is now, there's this perpetual struggle between the right and left, along with the ever escalating animosity that divides us. Encouraging universal tolerance by uniting against all forms of intolerance will be our future, but only if we allow it to happen.
>I'm truly sorry you have experienced and observed unfounded hate from liberals. I have experienced and observed the opposite.
I too have experienced the opposite. In my 20s and 30s, it was rednecks. For the last 20 years, the encounters have been with Creationists.
>I have yet to see a left-flung epithet take hold with such fervor as the ubiquitous "libtard," and I have yet to hear inflections from the left which approach the level of sneer and jeer public conservatives ooze every time they pronounce the word "liberals."
That's because you haven't had my experiences, and I'm not the only one. And just like you, we too have the right to have our concerns and fears addressed.
>I have not seen anything in my lifetime which resembles the Two Minutes of Hate so closely as the vitriol directed at Obama for simply being Obama.
Again, your opinion. I know people who have despised president Obama just as you said. I also know people who did the same to George W. Bush. In my last post, I detailed how liberals lied about Bush's lying. Then there was the "moron" accusation. Because Kerry's Yale records were sealed at the time, journalist Steve Sailer used Bush's and Kerry's military aptitude tests to determine their IQs. Kerry's turned out to be in the 91st percentile, which is very high. Bush's was higher, in the 95th percentile, which is only 3 below genius level. The New York Times published Sailer's research.
Both "sides" are engaging in the same hateful behavior. There can't be any favoritism. Because they are both the opposite side of the same coin, both need to be equally denounced.
Like I've said, to me hate is hate. There are no justifications, no excuses. To rid our society of it, it needs to be severely dealt with at each and every occurrence.
>Criticism of Trump has been relentless, but it has been directed at his specific behaviors and actions.
One of the biggest charges is that Trump is a fascist. Fascism is characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce. The fact that Trumps' immigration restrictions have been blocked shows he's doesn't have dictatorial power. The large amount of protests show he doesn't suppress the opposition. He doesn't control this nation's industry and commerce.
This shows that rather then being about specific behaviors and actions, the charge of being a fascist is yet another liberal lie. These and other left-wing lies are responsible for the animosity that now exists in our country. That is why all forms of hatred, left and right, must be dealt with equally.
>I don't doubt that you have seen and experienced what you say you have seen and experienced, but surely you can't deny that there is coordinated and viscious hate coming from the right.
Of course there is. And my question to you is, why you do continually minimize my concerns. It's a recurring pattern.
>In my observation it is far more personal, coordinated, manipulative, and strategically-wielded than anything coming from the left.
Again, that's your observation. Others feel different.
>And surely your Orwell sensibilities can't help but tingle at Trump's constant and pathological tendency to repeat objectively verifiable lies.
They also tingle at the fact that you ignore it when left wing bigots do the same thing.
>George, I'm being a bit snarky here but I mean no disrespect to you. I wouldn't bother responding if I didn't respect you ... I believe the issue of Neo-Nazis vs. anti-Neo-Nazis is far more one-sided than you let on.
You say you mean no disrespect, then insult my intelligence with "far more one-sided than you let on." So which one is it? I've cited facts and personal experiences to support my position. I've talked about the nation coming together to combat all forms of bigotry, something most people would consider a noble undertaking.
It's fine if you want to continue on as is. It's your life to live as you see fit. But I'm not interested in endless rounds of justifications that lead nowhere.
FB - 2017/08/19