Socialism Compared to Communism
Melissa Wilson "I just know liberals reflect the unfreedom/state control idea on most issues." Jeanne, being an Objectivist, I see liberals and conservatives as being that way.
George Spicka In so many words, Orwell wrote that seeing the world objectively was key to really understanding the root of problems, rather then surrendering to propaganda.
Melissa Wilson Orwell was a commie too.
George Spicka "Orwell was a commie too." He was a democratic socialist who detested Communism, and the "intellectual dishonesty" of leftist politics. That's what animal farm was about.
Melissa Wilson "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." -- Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons"
The above quote is Ann Rand's opinion, to which she is entitled. I suspect however, that with her energies being devoted to formulating Objectivism, she never investigated Orwell's essays. As Orwell describes, though it wasn’t his main intent, it is rather evident that there is a considerable difference between democratic socialism, that is: a democratic political system with a socialist economic system, and communism: in which all social and economic activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
Of course, one of the problems with comparisons in general, is the assumption that everything that falls under a general label is identical. We see that all the time in politics, “All (fill-in-the-blank) are stupid.” It’s absurd to think that approximately all 150 million democrats, or all 150 million republicans, all share the same values, yet we see this often in Facebook debates.
Democracies are an example of different models with a common theme. There are direct democracies, democratic republics, parliamentary sovereignties, and constitutional monarchies. Interestingly enough, once source I examined rates Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom, as being more democratic then the United States.
On the left there’s even more variants, i.e. “schools.” I suspect this is due to the myriad of “intellectuals” that are attracted to the systems, each believing they can solve the world’s problems:
- philosophical (utopian socialism)
- revolutionary (Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism, Social Anarchism)
- reform (Fabianism, social democracy, Individualist Anarchism)
This difference in philosophy effected the eventual outcome of the 1930’s Spanish Civil War. Orwell fought in this conflict with a socialist group, and recounts it in his novel, “Homage to Catalonia” (1938). War erupted after the Nationalists overthrew the democratically elected Republican government. German and Italian forces were sent to assist the Nationalists. On the other side, various socialist, anarchist, and communist groups came to help the Republicans. As Orwell described it, initially the Republicans, aided by their leftist supporters, were gaining the upper hand. But then Stalin, much as he did in Russia, had the communists turn on their brethren. There was a civil-war within a civil-war. Not wanting to see a communist state on the Iberian Peninsula, England sent in her naval forces to support the Nationalists, forcing a close to the conflict.
Melissa Wilson I'm just sayin', claiming that Orwell's democratic socialism is somehow superior to communism is tenuous, at best.
- Stan Modjesky I really wish it were possible to close down comments on a thread, because this has gone very far astray from where it started.
- George Spicka "Melissa Wilson "I'm just sayin', claiming that Orwell's democratic socialism is somehow superior to communism is tenuous, at best." How would you know?
- Stan Modjesky 5...4...3...
- George Spicka " 5...4...3..." If we were on the other side of the singularity, this could be considered the countdown to the Big Bang
- George Spicka Of course, I never said any such thing, a classic case of projection.